SFPE Discussions

F8 Design in Engineering Design Report

Hi All

Interested to find out others views on the extent to which you provide information/advice on the location of exit signs.

Do you specify that signs are to comply with F8/AS1 and say no more or do you provide more information in your design and on marked up plans/sketches?

If it is the former who, in your experience, does specify sign size and location?

If the latter what do you specify?

Thanks

Regards

Nick

In my opinion the Fire Engineer is in the best position to indicate where (directional) signage (and final exit signage) needs to be provided as we need to understand the building, the routes that people can/will take and can envisage where signage needs to be located. We should not be leaving this up to some random unknown person (sometimes the site electrician) to decide on where signage needs to be located

The fire engineer indicates the recommended location of the EXIT signs to show the egress route. The installation detail, size and type of sign is designed by the Electrical Engineer. Note that it is the responsibility of the Fire engineer to coordinate this with his electrical counterpart as in many cases 2D plans do not indicate obstructions that may block the linear visibility of the signs.

In my experience, most Fire Engineers now show the general location of exit signs on their Fire safety plans along the route and the final exit. (We use this to determine where the Manual call points are required.) The Electrical engineer on the design team determine the details of size etc to comply. The Electrical engineer/ also details the exact location which we will often discuss with them as it affects sprinkler compliance. There are always exceptions, but we would not usually expect a Fire Engineer to be involved in that detail/coordination.

Hope that helps.

Nicky Marshall
Fire Protection Consultant
Protech Design

I show indicative locations on the drawings, so reasonable locations and directional indication. However I usually refer the design work to electrical engineers as there are usually a number of size and distance performance items to address, and often this needs to be done in conjunction with the emergency lighting design.

There is an important point here. As a fire engineer I choose to provide a report to the design team on fire code compliance for the respective designers. I deliberately construct my report so that it does not form part of the plans and specifications for building consent (It is a report to the design team only - the BCA may choose to use it to check the plans and specifications for fire code compliance). As such I provide an indicative exit sign layout to the design team along with the necessary advice on the code requirements to enable the relevant designer to provide a building code compliant exit sign arrangement. This may involve additional exit signs and will involve signage sizing and illumination.

Regards
Robert Peart

We provide generic locations only with the design to be done by a suitably competent person. We are not in a position to claim and “competency” under our CPEng status. Fire reports are performance documents and not design documents. Form a liability perspective design at your peril you will own that design…and the eventuating cost of the law suit that could follow.